A Recent Comment Led Me to Scripture

Standard

Tis no doubt he died for ALL but you miss the point by not identifying what he says and to whom He is saying it. He made no bones about it. He came for the lost sheep of Israel. He told the woman “I did not come for Dogs!”

Jesus did not say this to the woman of Samaria:

And He answered and said, “It is not good to take the children’s bread and throw it to the dogs.” But she said, “Yes, Lord; but even the dogs feed on the crumbs which fall from their masters’ table.”  Then Jesus said to her, “O woman, your faith is great; it shall be done for you as you wish.” And her daughter was healed at once. (Matt 15:26-28 )

In Mark’s account we read:

Now the woman was a Gentile, of the Syrophoenician race. And she kept asking Him to cast the demon out of her daughter. And He was saying to her, “Let the children be satisfied first, for it is not good to take the children’s bread and throw it to the dogs.”  But she answered and said to Him, “Yes, Lord, but even the dogs under the table feed on the children’s crumbs.” And He said to her, “Because of this answer go; the demon has gone out of your daughter.” And going back to her home, she found the child lying on the bed, the demon having left. (Mark 7:26-30)

Everyone just grabs stuff and takes is as thought it were written or said to them and we get all messed up because of it. Yes He gave “The Great Commission” but before he left he told his eleven. “Stay in Jerusalem do not go to Samaria.” In fact they stayed right there till they died. Who did he send to Samaria and thus on The Great Commission?

This was not the Great Commission. When He gave these instructions, it was while He was in the midst of His ministry. After His death and resurrection, He instructed the eleven in Matthew 28:16-20:

But the eleven disciples proceeded to Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had designated. When they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some were doubtful. And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.  “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,  teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

In Mark 16:15,16:

And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. “He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.

In Luke 24:44-49:

Now He said to them, “These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.” Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures,  and He said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise again from the dead the third day,  and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem.  “You are witnesses of these things.  “And behold, I am sending forth the promise of My Father upon you; but you are to stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high.”

Acts 1:1-9:

  • ….appearing to them over a period of forty days and speaking of the things concerning the kingdom of God. Gathering them together, He commanded them not to leave Jerusalem, but to wait for what the Father had promised, “Which,” He said, “you heard of from Me; for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”  So when they had come together, they were asking Him, saying, “Lord, is it at this time You are restoring the kingdom to Israel?”  He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority;  but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth.”  And after He had said these things, He was lifted up while they were looking on, and a cloud received Him out of their sight.

These verses clearly teach that the disciples were to go into ALL the world and preach the Gospel.  They obeyed His command as Church History has recorded:

  • 42 AD James, brother of John, was beheaded (Acts 12:2)
  • 49/50 AD Council of Jerusalem was held (Acts 15) Result – Gentiles were not required to be circumcised.
  • 50 AD 2nd missionary journey – In Corinth Paul met Aquila and Priscilla, refugees from Claudius’ expulsion of the Jews from Rome. (Acts 18:2)
  • 62 AD James the Just, Bishop of Jerusalem, was killed in the temple by an angry mob, apparently struck in the head with a sledgehammer.  Bartholomew was martyred in Kalyana, W. Coast of India.  He was skinned alive and crucified.
  • 67/68 AD Paul martyred, beheaded on the road from Rome to Ostia, Peter crucified upside down – Rome.
  • 69 AD Andrew was crucified in Patrae on the Peloponnesus peninsula. Irenaeus stated that Polycarp, (born in 69, became bishop of Smyrna, died in 157) had known John at Ephesus. “Polycarp also was not only instructed by the Apostles, and conversed with many who had seen Christ, but was also by Apostles in Asia, ordained bishop of Smyrna, whom I also saw in my early youth, having always taught things which he had learned from the Apostle, and which the church has handed down, and which alone are true.” (Irenaeus)
  • 72 AD Thomas stabbed to death by Brahman priests in Mylapore, India.
  • 79 AD Jude and Simon were torn apart by a Persian mob. Simon had joined forces with Jude, Thaddeus, after a trip to Britain. Jude had been in Armenia
  • 90 AD Philip crucified upside down in Hierapolis, Asia Minor.
  • 90 AD Matthew died natural death in Hierees, Persia.
  • 92 AD John banished to Patmos under Domitian’s persecution. Around 100 AD, John died on Patmos.


The eleven continued to preach the gospel of the Kingdom. Christ did not preach salvation by his shed blood. He could not since he had not died. The eleven stayed around preaching the gospel that more than half of the world takes and runs with this very day and it is not for us, it is totally wrong if not “Another Gospel”. That would be “Repent and be baptized for the remission of sins.” Peter intended every word of that and it means exactly what he said but it “had” and intended audience to whom it applied. It applies to no one today!
 

 So what was Jesus preaching at the Last Supper?  Matthew 26:27-29:

And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you; for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins.  “But I say to you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in My Father’s kingdom.”

Peter taught:

 knowing that you were not redeemed with perishable things like silver or gold from your futile way of life inherited from your forefathers,  but with precious blood, as of a lamb unblemished and spotless, the blood of Christ. For He was foreknown before the foundation of the world, but has appeared in these last times for the sake of you  who through Him are believers in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God. (1 Peter 1:18-21).

For this is contained in Scripture: “BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A CHOICE STONE, A PRECIOUS CORNER stone, AND HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED.”  This precious value, then, is for you who believe; but for those who disbelieve, “THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED, THIS BECAME THE VERY CORNER stone,” and, “A STONE OF STUMBLING AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE”; for they stumble because they are disobedient to the word, and to this doom they were also appointed.  But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God’s OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;  for you once were NOT A PEOPLE, but now you are THE PEOPLE OF GOD; you had NOT RECEIVED MERCY, but now you have RECEIVED MERCY. (1 Peter 2:6-10).

 and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed. (1 Peter 2:24).

 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;  in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison, who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water. Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you–not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for  a good conscience–through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,(1 Peter 3:18-21).

The Roman catholics and many of their offspring and even some that were never Roman like the Church of Christ take this Gospel of the Kingdom” that was intended only for those Jews that had been under the law in that day. They were to repent believe on his name and be baptized to serve as the priests for His Kingdom only if ALL of the Jews had accepted Him as their King. But they did not. In any event the Gospel of the Kingdom was the one for His people and the Roman catholics erring grabbed it and have been making it up as they go ever since. Also some other Johnny come lately denominations do the same as they now preach that baptism saves one, but it is to miss the point entirely.

Where do you see this in scripture? The Kingdom is for all who will believe. Read through Acts. Again and again it says they spoke about the Kingdom of God to the Gentiles. Throughout the Epistles we are told we have entered into the Kingdom of God through Jesus’ blood.

They miss the point as do we when we say he died to save me from our sins.

Read John’s teaching in his first epistle: 

  • You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin.
  • If we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.
  • If we confess our sins He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

He did not! He rose from the dead to give us life!The only gospel that is applicable today is Paul’s Gospel or “The Gospel That Saves You” I Cor 15 1-4. There is no other!

1 Corinthians 15:3… “Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures” is part of Paul’s gospel. The work of the Cross is not divided into parts. It was accomplished “once for all”.

Advertisements

21 responses »

  1. You truly do miss the point or points all of them. Everything written or said was for all. Sorry it does not wash!

    But suffice it to be as you say He died for your sins. It would make no difference if he had, for anyone, if it ended there.

    The point is what I said, He arose to give you and us all life!

  2. What is the key to understanding the Bible?

    I am sorry I did not state it clearly so here is how one man says it. I would be hard pressed to take issue with him.

    “Now let’s come right back to our study, and begin I Corinthians Chapter 5. We love to hear when you write and say that you study right along with us. That just thrills our hearts. As you know we never try to promote any particular group or ourselves, but we just want to help people to understand The Bible, because it’s the greatest Book on earth. But you know there are so many that won’t even attempt to read it because they say, “Well I can’t understand it.” But, oh yes you can, and the whole secret to understanding The Bible and having it come to life for you is this; pay attention to whom a particular Scripture is written to, and don’t confuse Israel with the Church. God was careful in separating the two, and we should be also. And for the most part when God is speaking to the Church Age believer (that’s you and I) He does this through the Apostle Paul’s writings. A lot of the things that were applicable to Israel are not to the Church today.
    But I always have to remind you that the things that God hated in the land of Israel He still hates today. God does not change. The God of Israel in Genesis is the still the same God that we deal with today, but He deals with us, the Church, under far different circumstances. We are now on resurrection ground, we are now being dealt with as people who are to believe for their Salvation that Christ died for our sins, was buried, and rose again, as recorded in I Corinthians 15:1-4, and not merely a Shekinah glory back there in the Temple in Jerusalem. We’re not under a mandate to keep the Law and so forth. But nevertheless always remember that God has not changed in His attitude toward sin, and righteousness.
    You have to realize if you’ve been with me these past three and a half years (and many of you have been with me the better part of twenty years), that as we’ve come up through human history, God has changed His dealing with the human race. Now God didn’t change. But He changed in His dealings.
    In other words, when Adam and Eve were in the garden, God dealt with them under those circumstances. The garden was theirs to enjoy. God communed with them everyday. And everything was pretty simple. Then all of a sudden sin entered. And then what happened? A whole new ball game. Adam and Eve are expelled from the garden. All of a sudden they have to work with the sweat of their brow. Sin, and the curse is now on the scene. And that’s certainly far different than it was in the garden. And that went on until it got so bad that God destroyed the whole human race with the exception of Noah and his family. Then they come out of the ark and what happened? Another whole different set of circumstances. Totally different than it was before the flood. And so that goes on. And then the next great event in history is the Tower of Babel. All those new generations of people coming out of the sons of Noah have gathered in rebellion. That’s what the tower of Babel really is. It’s a place of rebellion. And again, God intervenes and confuses all their languages and what happens? God scatters them.
    Then He calls Abraham, and again it’s something totally different. He now is going to deal with one special little race of people. That’s why they are called “The chosen race.” They’re Covenant people. Again, that’s totally different than what He’s ever done before. Then along comes Moses about 1500 BC. At God’s direction, Moses gives Israel the Law. You and I have no idea what it was to live under the Mosaic Law. That put such pressure on the Jew, and you need to remember it was far different than the law practiced by Judaism today. To live under the pure Law of Moses, was to live under the constant threat of what? Death! If they picked up sticks to build a fire on the Sabbath Day they knew that death was waiting for them. One act of adultery would result in the same thing. There was no mercy. That was Law. Then along comes the Apostle Paul and to the amazement of the Jew in his day, as well as the Jew to this day, Paul proclaims that you are not under Law, but under Grace. That’s a whole different set of circumstances.
    You know I would like to get every person from whatever station in society or whatever age group interested in the Word of God. The Bible is still the greatest Book on earth, and it’s not as difficult as most people have been led to believe. The secret to understanding the Bible is to separate some of these things that you cannot mix. And so this where we come in, especially with the apostle Paul and his writings. All of his writings are of Grace and Grace alone. So if there seems to be a contradiction in Scripture, see if it’s under Grace or Law as the two won’t mix.
    Editor’s Note: Paul’s writings to the Gentiles (the Church) are the thirteen books of Romans through Philemon. This is the part of the Bible that a new believer should read first. Although Paul also wrote the book of Hebrews, he wrote it to the Jewish believers who had been saved under the gospel of the kingdom, the teaching of the twelve apostles of the circumcision (Jews). Hebrews was not written to the Gentiles.”

  3. I will not argue one man’s opinions. I will look to the Word of God for the answers. His word cannot be refuted or compromised. I will not add to or take away from the Word that is able to sanctify us in the Truth.

    As for missing the point. I believe the premise of the whole debate was the challenge that Jesus died to save us from our sins. I have answered the only way I know how – with the Word of God, for my opinion does not matter.

    Jesus fulfilled all that was in the Law and the Prophets. We have now entered into the New Covenant where Jew or Greek, male or female, slave or freedman are one in Christ.

    No one disputes that we are to live in the power of the resurrection. We have His Holy Spirit which indwells us, “the mystery…that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel.”

    “remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity. AND HE CAME AND PREACHED PEACE TO YOU WHO WERE FAR AWAY, AND PEACE TO THOSE WHO WERE NEAR; for through Him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father. So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God’s household, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the cornerstone” Eph 2: 12-20.

    There is one gospel. The same gospel that was preached to the Jews was then extended to the Gentiles.

    We have become one kingdom of God that will be realized fully when Christ steps down on the earth, once again. Tragically, those (Jew or Gentile) who continue to stay far off, by trying to establish their own righteousness, will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

    Study Romans 9-11. We are one, and Paul’s teaching never excluded the Jews. As he went through the cities he would begin preaching in the synagogues, or any place where he knew the Jews would be meeting (the Jew first, then the Gentile). He told them of the salvation that comes through Christ and the need to live by faith alone. The early church was made up of Jews and Gentiles – as it is to this very day.

    God’s promises to the Jews have not been abolished. The Abrahamic covenant, established by God, will be completely fulfilled.

    I’ll say it again, I won’t argue opinions. I will continue to say, “where is it written.”

  4. Hey jniles,

    How about a reference to go with the long quote.

    Who is the “one man”?

    As far as the “key to understanding the Bible”, Paul is clear on no destinction in who Christ died for and the whole concept of First Adam vs the Second Adam. I do not see a distinction between this in what God did for the Jews vs what God did for the Gentiles. Paul even states, “without the Law no one understands sin” We are all taught by the Law that we are in Sin and need a Saviour because we cannot be cleansed without the shedding of blood. Christ’s being a permanent cleansing vs the blood of bulls and goats only being a temporary solution.

    There is no distiction made throughout scripture that “this part is for the Jews only and this part is for Gentiles only”.

    That is “one man”‘s view, be it ever so flawed. We have the whole scripture available to understand the nature of God who is unchanging, but Who uses the history of His people to educate all mankind on who He is and what his solution to our sin nature is. To try to segment the scriptures to different groups of people, is to segement the teachings of scripture. If that were true, God would be very clear to say this is for the Jews only, and this is for the Gentiles only; and the concept would not be left to the chance of “one man” discovering that truth. God does not work that way. If fact the message of “one man” types of theologies leads to cults like the Mormon church, Jehovah’s Witnesses, etc. We have to be careful when following “one man”‘s opinion. We must stick to the Truth laid out consistently throughout scripture.

    Oh and by the way, no one knows who wrote Hebrews, attributing it to Paul is only a speculation. 🙂

  5. You are both correct. But both cannot understand the difference between the requirements of the different periods.

    All are and have always been saved by faith however the evidence of that faith has had different requirements through out the ages. You cannot make it today by not eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, even if you had access to it, it will not wash today! You cannot make it today by keeping the law of Moses or making sacrifices.

    It is terribly apparent you don’t understand what Paul tells us when he says, you who were without the law, you who had no hope. He is not talking to Hebrews here, that would be Gentiles in case you have not noticed. You cannot mix the two or the instructions to the two!

    People that were never given the law, never had the law, and never had lived under the law, that would be Gentiles. Paul writes almost exclusively to them. He even states he is “the apostle to the Gentiles”. Depending on which version you happen to be using. But the singular is correct since the first is the only apostle, you cannot have apostles after the first. We have the first to the Jews (the eleven) and first (Paul) to the Gentiles, believe it or not.

    They both had the same amount of study with Jesus. Paul got his direct too and it was a tad different and Peter and the others never really understood that difference. Although Peter did tell the others to back off as he was given understanding that what Paul knew was from Christ too, even if he and they did not understand it. If you will study your new testament you find that to be true. The two worked different mission fields believe it or not. Biblically it cannot be proven otherwise.

    Paul was given a mystery that Peter never understood. It was not for Peter and the others to understand since they were the apostles of the circumcision. Check out what Peter was talking about in 2 Peter 14-18. Those things that were hard to understand had everything to do with not teaching the keeping of the law. It was hard to understand for Peter since they had a different mission to different people.

    If you will look at each of Paul’s letters in almost every case he tells you who he is talking to and it is clear. The same when Peter writes and says to those scattered among the nations. In case you don’t know it that would be the scattered Jews from the persecution. Peter was not writing to Gentiles and never did.

    Believe it or not in those times they were just a tad more racist than we are today, if that is possible. Gentiles were called dogs by the Jews, tho their faces. They did not associate together and they certainly did not eat together much less attend services together. Yes there were proselytes and there are the scattered instances where an individual or two met and worked together but it was strained to say the least since it was not accepted by the Jewish culture. Gentiles were also referred to as the unclean and I would say the Jews had that right to be sure but still the pot calling the kettle.

    The Jews living under the law when Christ began and finished His ministry had a requirement to show their faith just as Adam and those under Moses. Yes it was different than either of those. Peter says it, believe it or not!

    Believe on the name of Christ and be baptized for the remission of sin. That was John’s baptism. That baptism was a ritual that had to happen for all that were to serve as priests in the Kingdom. That will not work for you! Nor will it work for anyone today. Many believe this today but they mix it all together and somehow it just comes out that way. In that day it was a way one was saved and demonstrated his faith in different era actually between the eras.

    Yes I know we are all priests too but we are not talking about that here.

    Biblically you can not make any case for Peter and the other ten ever doing anything other than observing the law and keeping the Sabbath at the temple and staying in and around Jerusalem as Christ told them to stay just before His ascension. He told them to go to the lost sheep of Israel, and that would not be Gentiles. The did what He said! They thought He was coming back to Jerusalem and very soon at the time. They continued to preach to those Jews that had been brought up under the law, the Gospel of the Kingdom (or repent and be baptized for salvation). These Jews were to serve as priests in Christ’s kingdom right then and right there if they could only convince all of the Jews to believe on His name and be baptized for the remission of sin.

    Lucky for you and me they ALL never believed or the Kingdom would have been a 1000 years past.

    Paul tells us (those far off (Gentiles)) what we are to believe and in fact Paul’s Gospel (I did not name it, he did!), “the Gospel that saves you” is different than it was for Jews living under the law in anticipation of Christ’s immediate return to set up the Kingdom. Paul’s Gospel is the only Gospel for ALL today period. And by all means if a Jew were in attendance at a Gentile meeting or were given the Gospel of Paul by a Gentile he would be saved exactly as you and I are today.

    It appears as if you both possibly believe in replacement theology. If so I am sorry for you, but the covenant was made with Israel and it is still with Israel and will always be with Israel. We ALL have a new covenant but we are not Israel. The Church is not Israel either and it did not replace Israel!

    Yes all Christians can find all scripture is good for instruction but ALL is not written to Gentiles nor to Jews. The Scripture is definitely separated even in the old testament.

    Have you ever noticed how Yahweh is referred to? When talking of the God of Israel He is always “Jehovah” and for the God of Gentiles He is always “The Most High God”.

    Yes there are different requirements in the different ages. Anyone that cannot see there was a change of eras the instant Christ arose to give us life is confused at best and doomed to wrestle with scripture that seems to contradict itself at worst. Guess what when you mix it up it does not stay straight and you will find contradictions.

  6. Hey ComicPhat,

    Sorry it bothers you that I hang wallpaper. So I will be brief and to the point, for you.

    The individual that made the comments meant what he said and said what he meant. It was not me. Who it was makes no difference and it is not in violation of any copyright. The real point would be to learn from it by studying your scripture with your mind and spiritual eyes open.

  7. Two quick comments to jniles and more later.

    1. I do not believe in replacement theology. the covenant given to Israel is an everlasting covenant. However, there is One Christ, One Death and One Gospel for all.

    2. It does matter where you are getting your quotes from, because there is a background to the person you are reading and studying from. I have studies Wesleyan theology, which I do not agree with and Calvanist theology with I do not agree with. I’ll stick with the scriptures. But if I do quote someone, especially the Wallpaper you hung, then I would give you the bibliography so you could read that person further, nothing to hide nor embarrassed on who i read. 😛

  8. Yes there is only one Gospel for ALL. Where did you get the idea I thought otherwise?

    Glad you are not replacement, Westlyan or Calvinist. The only true way is to be of Christ only. The Scripture has all of the answers, and the Holy Spirit is promised to teach you when you are ready. Show me and “ist” or an “an” other than Christian and I will show you a mixed up individual.

    Nothing the individual I quoted says cannot be backed up with scripture. In facts he does not want anyone to say he said it rather that is what it says in the Bible. Tell Michelle to give you my phone number and I will tell you or send a message to oklunar-receipts@yahoo.com and you can study what this guy teaches too and round out your education.

    Yes I also know that only God knows who wrote the book of Hebrews. Even the individual that made the statement knows that too but he believes Paul did it as some others also believe. I have a problem with Paul writing it, simply because the style is so greatly different.

    I also know Paul was smart enough to know the Jews did not trust him and they feared and probably hated him. In fact and he would most likely change his style to write them. But I don’t see any similarities and one would think there would at least be a couple.

    But who cares, if God wanted us to know who wrote it He would have told us. Just like he tells us who He is talking too in most every case in scripture. You must be alert to it as one only has to pay attention and quit glossing over what you read while never questioning who it was written to. It was not all written nor does all apply to you.

    Logically, either Peter is right about baptisim saving you or Paul is right. Both cannot be right unless they have different audiences. Please don’t start quoting great old Bible scholars and how they have twisted what Peter said into not meaning what he said, as they are in fact grasping for straws, and it begs the question.

  9. wow, I think M hit a nerve.

    I just deleted a huge long comment I was going to make – I didnt want to show my ignorance.

    I do want to say: J – you are obviously well studied, and are passionate in your arguments. I am impressed at your ability to communicate your thoughts; however you continue to defend the comments made by one person (who is obviuosly a theologian), but you try to discredit other theologians. You say that Scripture is the only answer…

    I won’t even pretend to understand some of the arguments made here – I am using this a jumping point for study… With that said:

    In this I tend to agree with Michelle – Where is it written?

  10. Yes! I can begin to see a reason for this blog. If it will stimulate people to study the Word and find the answers for themselves, then I will continue to write. Never worry about sounding ignorant, we are all ignorant when it comes to plunging the depths of His Word.

    As one of the books of wisdom declares:

    If you seek her (wisdom) as silver and search for her as for hidden treasures; then you will discern the fear of the Lord and discover the knowledge of God. Prov. 2:4-5

    This does not say it will be easy to understand, but with hard work and diving into the depths we can begin to discover the knowledge of God.

    Keep studying, brother.

  11. Forgive me for this wall paper.

    I agree with Michelle completely. And Burton we are all ignorant about certain things but the beauty of it is we can choose to correct it. Stupid, now that’s another matter completely.

    I am ignorant about much and even this premise I espouse is certainly open for interpretation (pun intended) and I would abandon it in a heartbeat if the Spirit led me to do so. I do honestly want to know the truth.

    I had intended not to say anything further as I may have offended some and that was never my intention. I do have a passion for the correct interpretation of scripture. I also am only a student and constantly trying to find out more about God and what He has told us.

    As Michell so rightly pointed out above the promise of Prov 2:4-5 please note that our apostle Paul also weighted in on the situation when he wrote Timothy:

    2 Timothy 2 :15 (King James Version)
    Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

    Please note other versions will not use the word divided but all say accurately which is still exactly that. The real word actually means something like a very straight path or road through an area and could in fact be properly interpreted as divided.

    In any event the portions of the Holy Scripture is intended for certain people and we must separate and sort out that which is intended for us “the church age” and that which is not intended for us. The Bible will tell us, we do not have to rely on some famous theologian but many of them can get us going in the right direction. We must arrive at a conclusion based on what the Bible itself tells us not what some Pappy or great theologian tells us to believe.

    To sum this up to rightly divide the Word one must only take to heart that mail (those letters) written to him. When God says place the blood of the lamb over the door post He is not talking to you! Also when He or Christ is giving instructions for the salvation of Israel He is not talking to you, the Church Age believer or church for that matter or even the tribulation saints yet to come.

    There are 66 books written in the OT and they are not to us even though all is necessary for us to have a rudimentary understanding of what has happened and what is to happen concerning God’s plan for Israel and for “the rest of us”.

    The next 4 books are the Gospels and in fact document the “Gospel of the Kingdom” written for Israel. Peter and the disciples do in fact continue the teaching of the “Gospel of the Kingdom” until they sort of fade into the background.

    After Paul comes on the scene and the disciples are finally told by Peter to lay off of him since he has been given knowledge by Christ too for the Gentiles, we don’t see the leader Peter again until he is being rebuked by Paul for trying to lay the law on the Gentiles.

    Peter is not and never has been a leader or the spokesman for the Gentiles. Paul is exactly that, our spokesman in the church age, just like Moses or Daniel was for their respective ages.

    The next 13 letters all start with the word “Paul” and he is the author of all of them. They are all addressed to you, the church age believer or even unbeliever for that matter, unless you happen to be reading this after the rapture in which case you should forget the epistles of Paul and jump ahead to Hebrews.

    What one must do to be saved in this church age is covered here and no where else. All scripture and doctrine for the church is here. We must always consider anything that we read in other scripture and make certain it is not in conflict with these letters of Paul. If there is a conflict, and since the Bible is infallible, the answer is in fact we are mixing mail intended for someone else into the church age. It does not work!

    Now as I said if you happen to be reading this after the rapture you should pay attention to the book of Hebrews since it is for the scattered tribes of Israel in the period of the tribulation. The economy is changed back to the “Gospel of the Kingdom” and during that period one cannot be saved by faith + nothing. Instead they must endure, hang on and make it to the end in order to be saved.

    All nine of those letters, the general epistles from Hebrews to Revelation deal with a future economy and when we read mail intended for someone else and take it as instruction for us we get in serious trouble, i.e, faith alone no longer saves and you can loose your salvation and one contradiction after another, from Baptism saves you as Peter and the disciples taught to the “Gospel of Grace” which is faith + nothing.

    Sorry for the wall paper and I will do my best to keep quiet. But please remember I am certainly willing to abandon my current belief if in fact “The Word” tells me otherwise.

  12. Forgive me I misspoke or wrote and should have stated of the 66 books of the Bible 39 are the Old Testament. Certainly not 66 were all OT. Hmmmm, first mistake this year! There are other errors goofy errors too but. Michelle I sure wish you would or could make this thing where we could edit. Should not be a problem if I would just shut up!

  13. I would change things if I knew how. My son set this up and I have no clue what I’m doing. I don’t think you have offended anyone. As long as we can disagree agreeably, I’m OK with diverse opinions.

    In trying to figure out what you have been saying, I came across the term ultra-dispensationalist. Could that be where you are coming from? I do believe God has shown Himself throughout history, in different eras, more fully. We do have the advantage of reading back. But I disagree that only some of the books are for me (or anyone). I get the whole Jew/Gentile, OT/NT distinction, but I still cannot find where we have not entered into the Kingdom of God. Paul taught that we have been transferred from the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of light and that we are seated in the heavenlies with Christ. (Colossians) I believe there is a now/later fulfillment to the Kingdom. Now it is solely in the spiritual realm and later we will see it realized on earth. But you and I will be coming back with Jesus dressed in white robes, ready to do His bidding. I see life now as bootcamp for a later reality.

  14. Michelle,

    You may not know what you are doing with the site and I may not know what I am talking about. As as I get older I find my knowledge or understanding is always changing. I pray it is for the better and of The Spirit’s lead always. But I have been known to be wrong. I, like you, was once a very confused little guy in a very scripturally ignorant waste land, but the people loved God and thought it was right just the same. We took everything and mixed it up. We never figured out who’s mail we were reading. At least I figured something was terribly wrong there out by the time I was nine and was always asking God “Why can’t it be as simple as John 3:16?” I prayed that so much He had to get tired of it. It took a while but I think He had led me to more truth as time goes on. But seek your own salvation with fear and trembling.

    Please don’t label me as an ultra or hyper-dispensationalist. It just ain’t so and tis a cut to the quick! A hyper one disregards all scripture except what he wants while attempting to blame the dispensations. That will not work except for cults as you so aptly pointed out earlier. So don’t get out the Kool-Aid for me and any sort of like me just yet!

    Paul did write all instruction, organization for the administration and doctrine of the church. But his letters are not for those of the dispensation during the tribulation (which will be the resumption of law with Daniel’s 40th week finally being given to Israel and with 2 witnesses and 144,000 spreading the Gospel of the Kingdom is at hand) to come or for the millennium either, for that matter.

    Paul stated all scripture is of profit for doctrine, instruction, reproof etc. It is! And it will be during the two future periods too. It is all for us. It is just not necessarily to us. We must know and understand and witness, but accurately not all mixed up. But we cannot ignore anything!

    Dispensation is not a dirty word, as God used it Himself (KJV). But hyper stuff will get us in as much if not more trouble than throwing it into a big bowl and mixing it all up while taking it all as intended for us.

    We cannot ignore any of it. But as Paul tells us in II TIm 2:15 (KJV) tells us we must study and rightly divide the scripture. By the way I am not a KJV only guy I actually think it is weak since we have so much better and more accurate stuff in our own language available today. But use caution as there is a lot of garbage out there too.

    The 13 letters of Paul can further be broken down to his first four which are his missionary journeys and the last nine are while he is in prison. Not hyper!

    The program actually changed for him right along as he traveled. Always first to the Jews then separately he would then go to the Gentiles. He was involved in the same ministry the others were too, at first, getting a Jewish remnant saved. As he would in complete the Jewish visit at each location his ability to use signs and wonders would not be mentioned with Gentiles and later he had none left as they ceased for him when he no longer preached to Jews. He did not need them at that point.

    Got off track. Sorry. The fact of the matter is, the 66 books of the Bible are thought, by many, to be originally sorted and ordered by John for the first time when he completed the last one. The amazing thing is they are in perfect order and your mail is in your box for our period today.

    Of course a very early Roman catholic council confirmed this order. Much later during the reformation another council added the apocrypha into our Bible. John did not include it. The motivation was so it could be said the reformers did not even have the whole Bible. Of course the KJV is in fact a Catholic Bible including the apocrypha, but that is an entirely different subject.

    Later

  15. jniles:

    Please give me some scriptures for this:

    The program actually changed for him right along as he traveled. Always first to the Jews then separately he would then go to the Gentiles. He was involved in the same ministry the others were too, at first, getting a Jewish remnant saved. As he would in complete the Jewish visit at each location his ability to use signs and wonders would not be mentioned with Gentiles and later he had none left as they ceased for him when he no longer preached to Jews. He did not need them at that point

    I’ve heard that some believe the gifts have ended, but I haven’t ever heard this much detail on Paul’s personal ministry. Are you sure it’s not speculation?

  16. A lot of questions can be answered, including this one, if you read the book by Douglas D Stauffer titled “One Book Rightly Divided” (The Key to Understanding the Bible).

    I do not agree with him entirely as I have great reservations about some of which he writes. But I have no reservations about recommending you read his book since you are well grounded in and with your great Bible knowledge.

    Although I don’t agree with him on many things it is still the greatest work I have discovered for a comprehensive and very accurate framework in which to conduct Bible study.

    Besides if you don’t like the book, I will buy it from you, but I know you well enough to know you will love it. But please don’t go back to working for your salvation. I have a grand daughter that wants to study apologetics and this is the one I am starting he with, as one should know exactly what they believe before defending their faith.

    Later,

    jniles

  17. jniles:

    Thanks for the book title, I’ll look into it. I found Precept Bible Studies to be a great source to learn how to study inductively. It gave me the tools to study that my church never taught.

    I think our love for the Lord far outweighs bad theology. Of course, if one doesn’t understand the essentials then maybe one needs to be sure he/she is believing in the true Jesus. However, I’ve wondered if bad thinking could equal nonconversion – take my grandfathers as examples. But I have decided to come down on the side of Love. They both loved the Lord but had different understandings; therefore, different lifestyles. But the love they showed me and the things they spoke about at the ends of their lives, have given me assurance of their place in heaven.

    I heard a professor from DTS (Dallas Theo.) tell a large group of believers that he wasn’t sure any of them were saved. Sounds heretical, but keep reading. He said that the Spirit of the Lord had only born witness to his spirit that he is saved, and that this could only be true individually. That gracious teaching allowed me to begin to be more gracious of those I wasn’t so sure about. If the essentials are believed then I have to come down on the side of grace for the nonessentials; otherwise, I will become too judgmental and may ruin my chance to witness.

    In His Grace, Michelle.

  18. So you’re looking into the beginnings of this here blog?

    This post was in response to another discussion that began with, “To blog or not to blog.”

    My uncle was my first and most enthusiastic commenter in the beginning. He loves to give me a hard time, and we do not see eye-to-eye about the gospel accounts. I’m not totally convinced he believes what he says – he does love to argue – we’re two of a kind.

    It was a good start for me, to see what I was meant to do with this thing…

  19. Yeah. That was a good start. And quite a different challenge than where we first met.

    And, Yes, I am slowly but surely reading–and sometimes re-reading your posts. With some of the comments I’ve gotten recently, I feel like I need to re-evaluate what I was meant to do with my blog. (Sometimes, I wish I’d never made those videos. 😥 )

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s